The 1985 Georgia Chopper Crash Site Incident
This very unusual report has been posted to the BFRO site in order to encourage
the other MPs involved to contact us with their version of the events that
night, and their descriptions of the animals that were attracted to this crash
site.
Various readers have responded to this report with questions and comments.
A few people with military knowledge have pointed out some elements they consider
to be inconsistent with standard military practice. The recurring elements
have been put to some active military personnel. They have said that some
things seem unusual, but may be due to slightly different practices and tolerances
among different units in 1985. In that time period, we are told, operational
procedures in various parts of the armed forces were not as strictly uniform
among all units as they eventually became in subsequent years. In other words,
some units did things a bit differently depending upon the style of the individual
supervisors. This may not be tolerated today, but this incident did occur
15 years ago.
Some points, such as an apparent
descrepancy in the asserted capacity of a 45 magazine, were later explained
by David K. (and confirmed by other sources) as simply a difference in usage
among serviceman at that time. The 45 magazine technically holds 7 rounds,
but some servicemen put only 6 rounds in the magazine to prevent jamming --
hence David's reference to a 6 round magazine.
This is one example of a circumstantial element and a superficially questionable
statement that various folks have focused on. These elements are peripheral,
however, to the main question the BFRO is concerned with: What animal species
was encountered that night at the crash site?
The BFRO's investigation has conclusively established two important things
related to this incident.
1) This helicopter crash happened in the area and time frame described by David K.
2) David K. and at least some of the other MPs mentioned were among the people who guarded the crash site that night.
We're assuming that at least
one of the other former MPs is still alive and recalls this assignment. We
know some of their full names and can probably locate them, but we would like
them to contact us on their own when they desire to discuss the incident.
According to David K. they were very reluctant to discuss the matter after
it happened, so we want to be sensitive to that. Both David K. and the BFRO
are confident that at least one of the other MPs will want to make a statement
about the incident at some point. It's much more likely that we'll receive
a full and forthcoming account from the other witnesses if they initiate the
contact with us, instead of them being contacted out of the blue and questioned
about it.
If we are ever contacted by one of those former MPs we are actually expecting
to hear a somewhat different version of the story than David K's version.
The key thing that interests the BFRO is the description of the animals that
were observed that night, and what those animals were observed doing when
confronted by the unit. If other elements of the whole story are disagreed
upon between different witnesses, it would not be surprising at all, nor would
it be relevant to the key issue of this report.
Different people will tend to have different recollections about peripheral
details and sequences of events they experienced together many years before.
We are only concerned about the recollections of a specific, 5-10 second observation
that occured among this group that night in 1985. If there are discrepancies
among versions the story, but a consistency among them as to description of
the animals, it would support the credibility of that part of the story.
If David's story is not true, in whole or in part, we assume the other MPs
involved won't hesitate to tell us so, but we haven't heard from any of them
yet ...
We hope the readers who have honest questions, concerns and insights about
the report below will wait for this posting to serve its purpose -- to bring
forth a confirmation or denial from the other MPs about the nature of the
animals encountered by the group. When we receive that additional information,
it will be included on this page as part of the followup.
Note: The report below and followup below have been edited slightly since
its initial posting as further discussions and clarifications have transpired
with the BFRO and David K.
Report submitted by witness
David K. on Thursday, March 9, 2000.
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YEAR: 1985 SEASON: Summer MONTH: September TIME AND CONDITIONS: 10:00-11:00 pm Light Conditions: dark but clear Weather: clear and about 60 degrees NEAREST TOWN: Dalonega NEAREST ROAD: state park access road about 2 miles away COUNTY: unknown STATE/PROVINCE: Georgia DIRECTIONS TO LOCATION: The location was northwest of Dalonega, Ga about 5-6 miles in the Chatahoochee Forest, 4 miles north of Camp Darby (US Army Ranger training camp). The main N - S Park access (dirt and gravel) road was about two miles from the location. The Park starts about 1/2 mile north of Camp Darby and the access road is the road from Darby into the Park - follow this road for about 2 miles and take the right (north) fork. About 2-3 miles north of the fork and on the west side of the road is a large mountain (I dont know the name of it, and was probably only known as a number on the military maps, however I do not recall what it is) the incident occured near a ridge, about 1/3 of the way up mountain. If I had a military map of the area I could show you the exact location. OBSERVED: In
1985 I was assigned as a Military Policeman to the US Army Garrison
at Fort McPhearson, Ga.(Atlanta). We recieved a alert for my squad to
go and secure the crash site of an AH-1 (Cobra) helicopter that belonged
to the Texas Army National Guard that crashed in the Chatahoochee Forest,
North of the Ranger Camp. We made it to within about 1/4 mile of the site and had to carry our gear in. |
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We relieved the Rangers that
were guarding the site (the crash occured about 12 hrs earlier) and set up
camp. Our job was to keep people out of the area (curiosity seekers, news
people, etc.) until the crash investigation team arrived and took over.
The crash site was small, about 100 feet by 30 feet because the Cobra crashed
in one piece and then burned, so the whole area had that fuel smell and that
"burned flesh" smell.
We set up camp adjacent to the wreckage about 50 feet away and posted our
guard shifts. (I will not name complete names here because of 2 reasons, 1.
some of the people involved refused to even talk about it afterward. 2. I
do not know where they are today.)
My squad consisted of 5 men:
SGT Ken R. - Patrol Supervisor
(NCOIC)
SPC Rodney T. - MP
SPC Shaun N. - MP
PFC Tim A. - MP
PFC David K. (Me)-MP
We finally got the camp set around 6:00 pm and the sun was going down. A large
fire was built in our perimeter (which was pretty stupid in retrospect due
to the large amount of fuel on the ground from the crash) and had set 4 hour
shifts. Myself and SPC Shaun N were on the second shift (10:00 pm-2:00 am)
we finally racked out about 8:00pm to get some shut-eye.
Around 10:00 pm I woke to the
most god awful howl/scream you could imagine and when I looked at SGT Ken
R, SPC Rodney T and PFC Tim A, you would have thought that they saw a ghost!
All three had their 45's out (we were armed with [45's] with two 6 round magazines)
cocked, locked and ready to rock!
All were visibly shaken. Myself and SPC Shaun N got up and asked what the
hell was that, the only answer we got was another howl/scream that was about
50 feet to our east (from the direction of the wreckage) at which time SGT
Ken R started dousing the fire from a 5 gallon water can and then told us
to spread out online. He told us to keep our flashlights off until he told
us and then told us to move out to the wreckage keeping online. His words
were "If these locals wanna F*** with the Army then lets give em what they
want."
At this point as we started to move out I could hear metal being pulled, thrown and moved around at the crash site and I kept looking for a light down there as I was moving. About 30 feet away SGT Ken R turned on his mag-lite and what I saw scared the S*** out of me: 3 creatures were there among the wreckage and they were not bears! the closest one (about 10 feet away) was holding a piece of metal from the heicopter and stood on 2 legs at least 7 1/2 feet tall, covered in hair except for the face, which looked like a chimp, the one behind him(15 feet away) was dragging part of the pilot's body from the wreckage, he (or she) was larger than the first one, however it was stooped while dragging the body. My estimate was over 8 feet tall with the same facial features. I only saw the 3rd one briefly 40 feet away as it was fleeing.
SPC Rodney T. was the first one to fire which sent everyone into "Dodge City" mode (basically shooting everywhere). After SGT Ken R. got everyone to stop shooting and got us calmed down (yea right!) we reloaded a fresh clip and circled the wagons so to speak. This all lasted about 20 min from start (when I heard the scream) to finish(when we stopped firing) however we stayed locked and loaded till sunrise and did not move from our 360 at the wreckage.
Around 6:00 it started getting light, so we moved out to see if we killed one of the creatures or could at least get a bloodtrail. We found no creature bodies or bloodtrails.
The crash invesigators arrived at 8:00 am and we said nothing to them (upon agreement) and we left and returned to Fort McPhearson.
When I think about that night I really get the "Willies" about what I saw and as I said earlier some of the guys with me absolutely refused to talk about it. I honestly think (looking back on this) that these creatures ment us no harm - they were only scavaging. I think they may have smelled the burned bodies in the same way you can smell someone bar-b-quing, how good it smells? They sensed a free meal - even though we were 50 feet away - and were willing to take the risk.
The howl/scream? one of the creatures calling the others to his find. I have only talked to 2 other people about this and because I am still in the military (though I am no longer an MP) I wish to remain unknown to the public - at least until I retire (in 4 years). As an investigator you are free to contact me any time and I will answer any of your questions that I can.
ENVIRONMENT: Geography: mountain terrain (by Georgia standards) with elevations around 3000 feet (highest peak in the area). It has many fast flowing creeks and streams with deep beds. The terrain tends to be very steep in most places with lots of gullies and draws.
Heavily wooded with areas of clearcut. underbrush is thick with lots of deadfalls. Virgin forest and 2nd generation forest about 50 / 50. Mostly Oak and Pine, some Walnut and a few Elm. Blackberries and wild plums abound. Enviorment of Encounter Area: 2nd generation hardwood forest (about 20-30 yrs old) and thick underbrush (oak scrub) about 200 meters (175 yards) from the edge of virgin timber (hardwood)
ALSO NOTICED: none
OTHER WITNESSES: 5 total witnesses involved 2 were sleeping - (myself and SPC Shaun N.) 3 were guarding - (SGT Ken R., SPC Rodney T., PFC Tim A.)
OTHER INCIDENTS: none
Report sent by witness David K. on Thursday, March 9, 2000.
Primary BFRO investigators: Matt M. and Army Ranger Instructor Carl J.
Matt M. has spoken with the
witness David K. by phone from Korea.
Carl was able to confirm that there was a helicopter crash with fatalities
at the described location in 1985.
If you are one of the other
witnesses mentioned in the report, please contact Curators@BFRO.net.
Witness David K. and Ranger Instructor Carl J. would both like to speak with
you about the incident. This an animal observation case, not a criminal case.
You have nothing to worry about by coming forward. No reasonable person is
going to suggest that five MP witnesses are all crazy. As the first witness
noted, this database puts your encounter in the proper context. You're not
the only one who has seen these animals.
Q&A
with witness David K.
Question: How did David K.'s group explain the missing ammunition when they returned?
Answers:
....
My section had their own rounds and that is what we used. We had planned to do some [target practice] while we were there.
Question: How did they explain to the
crash investigation team that the pilot's remains had been removed from
the wreckage? The point of that being that the scene was to supposed to
be kept undisturbed until the investigators arrived.
Answer:
In the interview David K. mentioned that the only time his unit worried about others learning what happened was the following morning. Soon after the investigators arrived they started shouting and asking how and why the remains were outside the wreckage. David said his unit was very nervous at that moment. They could only shrug it off.
It's important to keep in mind that the MP unit's order were not to keep the site completely undisturbed. Their instructions were to "keep people away from the crash site." They camped at a spot where they would be able to deter people approaching from the nearest road. They didn't need to camp right next to wreckage.
Question:
Can David K. explain why none of the three creatures
were hit at such close range although many rounds were fired?
Answer:
David never said that none of the creatures were hit. All he knew was that his unit didn't find any dead animals the next morning, nor did they find a blood trail. That does not mean that none were hit. He doesn't know one way or the other on that.
On the phone he explained that as the guys approached the wreckage, they were holding their guns and only one was holding a flashlight -- the sergeant. After the sgt and the rest of the unit got a good look at the animals in the flashlight beam, the sgt dropped the flashlight to go for his gun. So they were all suddenly laying down panicky cover fire blindly in the dark. If the animals were already starting to flee, the MPs could have easily missed them.
As David K. said on the phone, all his guys were trying to do at that moment was stop the animals from dragging away the remains. Their response definitely accomplished that, regardless of the surprise factor.
Question: Was it possible the wreckage was hit? Wouldn't bullet holes have raised questions?
Answer:
Visible bullet holes in the wreckage would probably have raised questions among investigators. I assume David K. would have mentioned it if his unit had been called back and questioned about that later. Considering that he didn't mention that I can assume 1) they weren't called back and questioned about that, and thus 2) there were no bullet holes in the wreckage, and thus 3) they probably weren't firing toward the wreckage.
Other Questions:
Several other questions
and comments have been sent in by readers who have doubts about this story.
Their questions range the gamut, from "Were there any tracks?"
to "What happened to the spent shell casings after the shooting?"
Instead of going back to David K. with every new question and doubt that
is sent in about this story, we are going to collect those questions and
direct them to the other witnesses when we hear from them. David K. has
told us enough. We'd like to seek answers from some of the other witnesses
who were there that night.
Added to the database by
the Dawn Harrack <Dawn@BFRO.net>, British Columbia
Bigfoot Field Researchers' Homepage